Public charging stations.

[jimball]

  Is there some way the charger can detect the circuit amps.

As a side note most of the charge sites in my area use the J1772 set up (except Tesla)  some free and some pay.

I've never heard of such a device.  The device plugged into an outlet has a certain requirement stated in Amps. (or watts)  Plugging a device (ev) that draws more than 15 amps of current into a receptacle that can only supply 15 amps will result in a tripped circuit breaker on the receptacle side. (and maybe some overheated house wiring) If Arcimoto says it can be charged off a 115v/20-amp circuit, I would not attempt to plug it into a 15 amp circuit.

[PAX]

  Is there some way the charger can detect the circuit amps.

As a side note most of the charge sites in my area use the J1772 set up (except Tesla)  some free and some pay.

I've never heard of such a device.  The device plugged into an outlet has a certain requirement stated in Amps. (or watts)  Plugging a device (ev) that draws more than 15 amps of current into a receptacle that can only supply 15 amps will result in a tripped circuit breaker on the receptacle side. (and maybe some overheated house wiring) If Arcimoto says it can be charged off a 115v/20-amp circuit, I would not attempt to plug it into a 15 amp circuit.

After a little searching it seems the EV that have cords for plug in draw about 12A so 15 A lines. This is what I suspect the Arcimoto will do.  I have a plug in 120V EVSE that has a button on it for faster charging which I suspect goes to 16 or so A. It is in a 20 A circuit. No issue on my E-truck.  I have two EVSE - one that is just 120 but with the faster charging and one that is either 120 or 240.

By the way one article called the Level 1 as a trickle or opportunity charger.

[SparkE]

Most EVs will pull a max of 12A when offered 120V - a limitation built into the vehicle ON PURPOSE by the manufacturers (to avoid starting house fires - because so many people are idiots). Many EVs default to 8A @ 120V, and you can override it to pull 12A instead. So plugging into a TT30 socket (30A, 120V) isn't going to charge you any faster than the standard 120V socket in your garage - the car will only pull 8 or 12 amps anyways, for safety reasons. If the SRK follows that logic (which it probably will) then the max re-charge rate at 120V will be 120*12= 1.44 kW (about 85% of which , or 1.22 kW, will go into the battery). So it would take about 10 hours to do a full recharge from 0% of a 12 kWh battery in an SRK using 120V. (Note that 12 amps is exactly 80% of 15 amps - and 15A is the common household circuit in the U.S. : 120V/15A).

Definitions :
EVSE - the thing you plug into the wall on one end and the vehicle on the other end. Sometimes called "a charging cord".
Charger - the thing that turns AC current (from the socket) into DC current (to put in the battery). There's normally one hardwired inside each EV.

What happens with charging is that the EVSE tells the vehicle how much current it can supply (amps) at what voltage. The vehicle decides how much to pull. That is why you can plug a 240V, 40A EVSE into a Mitsubishi iMiev (the EVSE tells the car "240V, 40A!" and the car decides "OK, I will pull 3.3 kW - my maximum)". It is also why you can plug a 240V, 16A EVSE into a Chevy Bolt (the EVSE tells the car "240V, 16A" and the car decides "OK, I WANT 32A, but I will only pull 16 amps - that's all that is available)".

[DanCooper]

I have a 240V 20A outlet in the garage - for a welder or EV. There are 6 Tesla charging stations in Wyoming, none within 120 miles from me. Does anyone know if Tesla charging stations will accept other EVs?

Most campgrounds have 30A and 50A service at 120V. This would be 3.6kW and 6 kW. So if I tried a road trip in an FUV, I would rely mainly on campgrounds for charging. Call in advance and negotiate payment for a charging stop.

[PAX]

Thank you SparkE,
Good post. The only minor thing I would add is the EVSE can be hard wired into your house electrical system. This is usually a more expensive system but will allow faster charging.

---

DanC,
I think You will need a portable EVSE to connect to those power sources. I don't know what is available power wise. I think the one I have only goes to 20a 220v. I am also planning on camp site power sources when traveling

[SparkE]

I have a 240V 20A outlet in the garage - for a welder or EV. There are 6 Tesla charging stations in Wyoming, none within 120 miles from me. Does anyone know if Tesla charging stations will accept other EVs?

Most campgrounds have 30A and 50A service at 120V. This would be 3.6kW and 6 kW. So if I tried a road trip in an FUV, I would rely mainly on campgrounds for charging. Call in advance and negotiate payment for a charging stop.

- quick safety note : if you have a 20amp socket in your garage, you should not plug in anything that pulls more than 16 amps (80%); do not plug in an EVSE that will pull more than 16 amps. As an aside, the original EVSE that came (comes?) with the Bolt sold in the U.S. is 240V 'safe' (the wiring and electronics don't blow up at 240V) even though it has a 120V plug on it. Many Bolt owners are getting 240plug-to-120socket adapter cables to be able to plug it in to a 240V socket, and double their charging speed. The gen2 Volt ships with a similar EVSE (which is where the Bolt owners learned the trick).

- Tesla vehicles have different charging sockets. Only Tesla vehicles can use supercharging. With an adapter, it is possible to use Tesla "level 2" charging (UMC/HPWC to J1772). As I stated earlier, if you charge at 120V you will most likely be restricted to 8 or 12 amps - so it won't matter if the campgrounds have 30 amp 120V service. Some campgrounds have 240V/50 amp service - that is a good reason to have a NEMA14-50 "plug adapter" for your portable EVSE, as you will then be able to charge full power at some campgrounds. EVSEs come in all shapes, sizes, power output and plug type. Shop wisely.

Thank you SparkE,
Good post. The only minor thing I would add is the EVSE can be hard wired into your house electrical system. This is usually a more expensive system but will allow faster charging.

---

Wiring directly into a line doesn't (necessarily) get you more amps. Tesla sells an EVSE with a 14-50 plug that puts out 40 amps - almost the largest available. (OK, some companies put out 240V/80 amp EVSEs, but those are multi-vehicle stations - to charge more than one vehicle at a time). There are quite a few EVSEs (with plugs) that are rated at 30, 32, or 40 amps. The max charge rate using the on-board charger for almost all EV models is 32 amps (7.68 kW) - and by that I mean that there are few models that can/will charge higher than that. The majority charge at 6.6kW or lower (max rate) - my SparkEV charges at 3.3 kW. The on-board charger (built into vehicle) is what determines the max charge rate.

If your EV has a 6.0 kW charger (like some of the first LEAFs), then if you plug it into a 9 kW EVSE, it will only charge at 6kW (safely, there is no danger). My SparkEV will only pull 3.3kW on the same EVSE. I *hope* that SRK will put a "big boy" 28-30 amp charger into the vehicle, to allow 6.7-7.2 kW charging - but they might cheap out (because the battery pack is "so small") and put in less expensive circuitry that allows just 3 or 4 kW charge rate. Personally, I think that EVs with smaller batteries should have FASTER chargers, since it is more likely that you will have to charge when out & about. It takes almost 6 hours to fully charge my Spark from almost-dead-empty   . If I had the on-board charger that the Bolt does, I could get more than 1/3 of a charge in an hour (this would be most useful when driving outside of my "base range" and having to add just 30 extra miles or so for a trip).

Edit: If you only have a 20 or 30 amp plug in your garage - then yes, a hard-wired cable will allow you to use a 40-amp EVSE. HOWEVER, since you are going to go to all the trouble and expense of installing new wire, new plug, new breaker, etc for a hard-wired connection - I'd highly recommend having a 14-50 socket installed instead (on a 50-amp circuit). First, you can later take your EVSE with you when you move (or travel, and use in campgrounds), or easily swap the EVSE out for "a better one" in a few years. Also, since you are simply having a socket installed (and not a 'system' or 'equipment'), the inspection requirements should be greatly lessened. But for God's sake do NOT say you want to plug in an EVSE!!! (bureaucrats are stupid and evil and may cause you lots of pain) Just say you want the option of installing an electric dryer in the future (or a 2nd electric dryer, if you already have one) and that is why you want the socket. You may not even need an inspection. (But park your EV on the street a few houses down until the inspection is done and the work signed off, just to be safe). Also, if you are paying an electrician to pull the wire and install the circuit, pay the extra $50 and get a full-blown 50 amp circuit installed (i.e., bigger breaker and thicker wire). Most of the cost is going to be labor - the incremental difference isn't that much, so don't cheap out. And if you have a "portable" EVSE (i.e., with a plug) you are going to be happy to have it be able to plug in to 14-50 sockets when you travel. (I have a friend with a 16 amp EVSE and he has 2 "converter" pigtail/adaptor cables so he can plug his L6-20 plug into one of the cables and then into a 14-50 or 10-30 electric dryer/RV socket; he can use it almost anywhere: friends, family, RV campgrounds, work, ...).

[jimball]

Ok, I'm a little confused. AFAIK, all EVs on the market, including Arcimoto, have onboard battery chargers. All public level 2 charging stations provide 220-240 VAC current via a J1772 connector. So why is it that when I look for an adapter cable that has a J1772 plug on one end and a NEMA 1450 plug on the other end, there is some very high-dollar charger in the middle? I did find a company that sells J1772 cables with one bare end. The two small connectors on the j1772 are proximity detection & control. One keeps the vehicle from driving off while plugged in & the other provides feedback info to the charging station concerning max. allowable current. Is it necessary to have an adapter cable with that expensive (several hundred dollar) built-in charger when plugging into a standard NEMA 1450 receptacle such as at home or an RV site at a campground?

http://www.quail.com/SearchByKeyword.asp...&sa=Search

Addendum: With further research, it looks like if I want Level 2 charging at home, or the ability to plug in to standard NEMA 1450 receptacles, then one of those expensive %$@# chargers IS needed.

[PAX]

Addendum: With further research, it looks like if I want Level 2 charging at home, or the ability to plug in to standard NEMA 1450 receptacles, then one of those expensive %$@# chargers IS needed.

I did a quick search and found a 40V Juice box one with 1450 plug for $579 . There must be other options also. You do need the EVSE - you can not hook a J1772 to a plug and use it.

I also just saw this https://store.openevse.com/

[SparkE]

So why is it that when I look for an adapter cable that has a J1772 plug on one end and a NEMA 1450 plug on the other end, there is some very high-dollar charger in the middle -  (i.e., why are they so damn expensive)?!!?

There isn't a "charger" in the middle, as the charger turns AC current into DC - an EVSE outputs AC. There's a bunch of safety stuff in "the box". Well, there's about $125 worth of circuits and connectors and chips and programming, a 30A A/C contactor is about $25, plus you need a rudimentary brain, a toroid coil for ground fault sensing, and a housing to put it all in, etc.


You can build one yourself : _LinketyLink_     With the previous link, you'd still have to buy the cables and plugs (which need to be able to carry 40A, continuous).

You can go to eBay and buy an EVSE (search for "EVSE level 2"). You might find something like : _LinkTwo_

You can go to amazon.com and buy something like this for $199 (240V/16A charge cable) : _LinkThree_

(the last two links may be the same equipment).

[jimball]

This looks like it is what I need. It comes with the NEMA 14-50 plug and is rated 32 amps. $399, but I guess it is just part of the price I'll have to pay. I am leery of anything electronic in nature sold on Ebay.


https://www.amazon.com/Jekayla-Portable-...cable&th=1