Charging

[PAX]

A bit more on the EVSEs that I use.I have two and both are stand alone units that plug into either 120 or 240,  Both are J1772 units that connects the FUV to the juice. 

The one I used on our trip is the black box one which has a screen that displays Volts, AMP. charging rate and total KWH at the moment. It has a choice of 10 or 15 AMPs. When charging Red  I can choose 10 amps or 15 amps. Red charges at 9.6 on former and 13.5  ( what it is reading right now as I charge Red) on the later.  The Amps do vary as the battery gets fuller- increasing a bit until the charger enters the constant voltage decreasing amps topping off stage. The thing I do not like about this unit is that it has a standard 15 A 120 plug on it which means when hooking it to 220 I need to make an adapter that has a female end with a 120 socket but it is on 220- not the safest.

The one provided by Arcimoto doesn't have a read out screen but it has a much safer way of converting from 120 to 220. There is a dedicated adapter that is designed to only fit the EVSE 120 male plug and a 220   20A socket. see pictures. This plug is similar to a 120 20A plug /socket but the side ways terminal is on opposite side. See the picture on Creative Guys previous pot wher he has a double 120 20A outlet next to his new 220 20A outlet. 

J1772 Handle


J1772 plugged in - charging starts automatically 


The one provided bu Arcimoto


My own with screen


The adapter for the ARC. one


The Arc one in its bag

[PAX]

A bit more on the EVSEs that I use.I have two and both are stand alone units that plug into either 120 or 240,  Both are J1772 units that connects the FUV to the juice. 

  I also should mention that the EVSE also limits the amperage of charge.  So if the FUV gets a bigger charger then the EVSE needs to be upgraded for fast charges at home in particular. Although I have no problem with the longer charge time at home but it would be nice to have a faster charge time when needing one  during the day.

[SparkE]

The EVSE only 'limits' the amperage because it tells the car how much it can provide. If you buy a 16A 240V charger, it tells the vehicle it can provide 16A at 240V. If you buy a 40A/240V EVSE, it tells the car that is what it can provide. The *car* then pulls whatever it wants (or can). So if your vehicle can only pull 3.8kW (about 16A@240V), buying an EVSE that can provide 40A is a waste of money. And even if the vehicle CAN charge at 6.6kW or 7.2 kW, frankly it generally isn't necessary to have a personal EVSE that matches, UNLESS you often plan to drive well over the range of the vehicle 'around town' during the day, thus needing a *quick* topup during the day. A 16A EVSE will fully charge a completely empty FUV battery in about 7 hours (so, overnight, no problem). I actually charged my EV on the default 120V (1 kW) EVSE, because I rarely drove more than 40 miles a day. When I did, I went to a public (pay) charger about a 1/2 mile from my house that could charge at 6.6kW, and read for an hour (or walked home) and the battery would be full in an hour or two. I very rarely had to do that.

If Arcimoto is going to deliver an AeroVironment TurboCord Dual as the std EVSE, they made a great choice. It is URL-listed, weatherproof, and runs on both 120V and 240V power sources. It is small, and light. The only problem with it (IMO) is the funky plug on it (NEMA 6-20) – which is only used for shop welders and some air conditioners, so *nobody* has one of those sockets in the garage. Basically, you buy (or make) a few 'pigtails' (1 or 2 foot 'extension cords', 12 gauge) that plug into *normal* 240V outlets (NEMA 14-50 for RV camps, 14-30 dryer outlets, and 10-30 'old style' {pre 1974} dryer outlets). Then, you can charge anywhere. Now, a 16A charge isn't going to be useful to make a 250 mile trip in a day, but you *should* be able to plan the trip to find public charging stations so that you can add electrons at the max rate while you eat lunch (depending on where you are going, of course). Once you arrive, you plug in and get a full charge overnight.

If you have to (or decide to) pull a dedicated, new 240V line to your garage for charging, I *highly* recommend installing a full-blown 40-amp (or 50 amp) circuit, and NEMA 14-50 socket. You will be paying an electrician mostly for his time and expertise, so spending the extra $30-$50 to use 8-gauge wire (for 40 amp) instead of 12 gauge (for 20 amp) is really worth it. Just make sure that you always, always plug an EVSE into a circuit that is rated for at least 25% more than the max draw of the EVSE (or, the other way around, the EVSE shouldn't demand more than 80% of the max rated circuit load - and no, I didn't make a math error). That won't be a problem with the TurboCord, as there are very few 240V circuits that can't provide 16A. But if you buy a more powerful EVSE for travel you should buy one that allows you to change the amps it draws, to match the circuit (such as the excellent Tesla portable charger).

[ricschug]

I just looked at that AeroVironment cord that SparkE mentioned and I agree, great choice. Im not too concerned about the 6-20 plug. Ya its a bit rare, some air compressors use it to, but I suspect that AM wanted a plug for the range of charging used. As for personal use I'll probably put one in my RV and shop. The issue is what kind of adapter to use; Dryer, Welder, 30A and 50A RV? Maybe one of each would be best as SparkE suggests.
It would be helpful if AM would specify the 120 and 240 V current draws used currently and of any future planned increases.

[PAX]

I just looked at that AeroVironment cord that SparkE mentioned and I agree, great choice. Im not too concerned about the 6-20 plug. Ya its a bit rare, some air compressors use it to, but I suspect that AM wanted a plug for the range of charging used. As for personal use I'll probably put one in my RV and shop. The issue is what kind of adapter to use; Dryer, Welder, 30A and 50A RV? Maybe one of each would be best as SparkE suggests.
It would be helpful if AM would specify the 120 and 240 V current draws used currently and of any future planned increases.

I personally prefer my other EVSE that records KWH put  into Red when done charging and also shows Amps, Volts and running KWH,  We keep track of every charge we make and mileage.  This unit also charges at 10 or 15 Amps on either 120 or 240. I don't think it is URL listed.
At present our FUV charges at MAX 13A on either 120 or 240 so the Aerovironment meets the needs.  The charger might be upgraded or an optional upgrade charger might be available.

For my EV truck I charge it off of a circuit that has a KWH meter on it  and I know how many KWH I have put into it.  Eventually I will set up RED on a similar circuit. You can get a KWH meter for about $40.

[ricschug]

One thing to note with adapters is NEVER use an adapter that connects a lower amperage load to a higher amperage source, its a safety issue. However, the AeroVironment cord supplied with the FUV should be fine with doing this as it has its own circuit breaker built in.

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I personally prefer my other EVSE that records KWH put  into Red when done charging and also shows Amps, Volts and running KWH,  We keep track of every charge we make and mileage.  This unit also charges at 10 or 15 Amps on either 120 or 240. I don't think it is URL listed.
At present our FUV charges at MAX 13A on either 120 or 240 so the Aerovironment meets the needs.  The charger might be upgraded or an optional upgrade charger might be available.

For my EV truck I charge it off of a circuit that has a KWH meter on it  and I know how many KWH I have put into it.  Eventually I will set up RED on a similar circuit. You can get a KWH meter for about $40.

I'm sure there are a lot of EVSEs on the market that will provide all kinds of information on charging and if that interests you absolutely get one. But there are folks, like myself, that really don't care about anything more than total charge time and for us the supplied cord will be fine. One thing I do wonder about is how much information is available from the FUV display on charging data? Of course and API would be great

[SparkE]

One thing to note with adapters is NEVER use an adapter that connects a lower amperage load to a higher amperage source, its a safety issue. However, the AeroVironment cord supplied with the FUV should be fine with doing this as it has its own circuit breaker built in.

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I think you got that backwards (or I read it backwards). It is fine to plug (say) a 16A/240V EVSE into a circuit that is rated for 40A. It is very, very bad to plug a 32A EVSE into a circuit that is rated for 20A. If you are lucky, the breaker will trip. If you are unlucky, the breaker is stuck (won't trip) and your wiring will overheat, possibly melt, and maybe your garage will catch fire.

Now, for adapter cables, the wire gauge should at a minimum match the load. If you have an EVSE that will pull a max of 16A and has a NEMA 6-20 plug (like the AEroVironment), and your pigtail has a 14-50 plug (for the wall) and a 6-20 socket (for the EVSE) then it should use 14 gauge or larger. I specifically said 'pigtail' (say, 18-36 inches or shorter) - if you were wiring a house (runs of 50 or 150 feet) then you should use 12 gauge. I'd probably se 12 gauge on the pigtail anyhow (or 10 or 8 gauge) because I'd only want to buy one roll of wire for all my pigtails, and I'd want the wire to work for everything up to 30-40A (say, making that 6-50 to 14-50 pigtail so I can use my 32A EVSE on the welding plug in my buddy's shop when I visit). I know a guy that has about 5 pigtails in the trunk of his Chevy Bolt - he can charge literally *anywhere* there is an outlet - including 'marine (boat) supply' electrical.

If you get an extension cord for your EVSE (say, so you can charge at the in-laws in the driveway) - pay extra for a 12-gauge, OUTDOOR cord. Yes, they are more expensive - and it is worth it.

[ricschug]

I think you got that backwards (or I read it backwards). It is fine to plug (say) a 16A/240V EVSE into a circuit that is rated for 40A. It is very, very bad to plug a 32A EVSE into a circuit that is rated for 20A. If you are lucky, the breaker will trip. If you are unlucky, the breaker is stuck (won't trip) and your wiring will overheat, possibly melt, and maybe your garage will catch fire.

Now, for adapter cables, the wire gauge should at a minimum match the load. If you have an EVSE that will pull a max of 16A and has a NEMA 6-20 plug (like the AEroVironment), and your pigtail has a 14-50 plug (for the wall) and a 6-20 socket (for the EVSE) then it should use 14 gauge or larger. I specifically said 'pigtail' (say, 18-36 inches or shorter) - if you were wiring a house (runs of 50 or 150 feet) then you should use 12 gauge. I'd probably se 12 gauge on the pigtail anyhow (or 10 or 8 gauge) because I'd only want to buy one roll of wire for all my pigtails, and I'd want the wire to work for everything up to 30-40A (say, making that 6-50 to 14-50 pigtail so I can use my 32A EVSE on the welding plug in my buddy's shop when I visit). I know a guy that has about 5 pigtails in the trunk of his Chevy Bolt - he can charge literally *anywhere* there is an outlet - including 'marine (boat) supply' electrical.

If you get an extension cord for your EVSE (say, so you can charge at the in-laws in the driveway) - pay extra for a 12-gauge, OUTDOOR cord. Yes, they are more expensive - and it is worth it.

No I meant it the way I said it but maybe it isn't very clear. I think we are probably on the same page however. I am always concerned when folks start making their own patch cords or pigtails as they can create unsafe situations. As an example if you have a pigtail to connect a 50A cable to a 30A outlet, no problem, you will just blow the breaker when you draw 30A. But if you make a pigtail to connect a 30A cable to a 50A outlet then you better have a 30A fuse involved as that 30A cable will go up in flames before you ever trip the 50A breaker.

This is why I like the AeroVironment cable that AM is using as it has its own built in breaker so folks are safe no matter what they use for a pigtail. I would also echo your '12ga' or larger for any pigtail and add 12ga, or larger depending on length, for any extension cord.

[SparkE]

Ah. Well, the circuit breaker in the house is to protect the house wiring - not what you plug in to it.

Do each of your lightbulbs have a breaker (or fuse)? Your dishwasher? Your refrigerator? And yet all those (most likely) share sockets with other devices, all those connected sockets share one breaker. And they each are hooked up to 15 or 20 amp fuses, and yet mysteriously don't explode.

The device pulls the electricity - the amperage rating of the breaker is supposed to match the wiring gauge (size / diameter) inside the walls of the house so that no device can pull enough amperage to overheat the wiring.

[PAX]

No I meant it the way I said it but maybe it isn't very clear. I think we are probably on the same page however. I am always concerned when folks start making their own patch cords or pigtails as they can create unsafe situations. As an example if you have a pigtail to connect a 50A cable to a 30A outlet, no problem, you will just blow the breaker when you draw 30A. But if you make a pigtail to connect a 30A cable to a 50A outlet then you better have a 30A fuse involved as that 30A cable will go up in flames before you ever trip the 50A breaker.

This is why I like the AeroVironment cable that AM is using as it has its own built in breaker so folks are safe no matter what they use for a pigtail. I would also echo your '12ga' or larger for any pigtail and add 12ga, or larger depending on length, for any extension cord.

If you take an EVSE that draws 20A. run it through a 30A pigtail connected to a 50 A circuit- there is no problem.  If you run a 40/50A EVSE through a lesser circuit or connection wires then you are asking for trouble.  
I connect 2,3, 8, 10 amp things to a 20 A circuit all the time with light weight cords.
The Aeroenvironment that AM provides says 12A at 120  and 16A at 240 . Just checked as it is charging my truck. So on 240 it should have 12ga wires. On 120 it could have 14ga  (all my cords are 12ga except one 10ga),