The Fate of the Three-Wheeler

[Kepesk]

I am pretty worried about the activity level on this forum also.  I think something like the SRK has to be sold primarily on fun, because I seem to be the only person I know who gives enough of a s*** about the environment and sustainability to make it a major deciding factor.

The environment is actually my #1 motivating factor for getting an SRK, local economy is #2 (since I live here), and fun all the way at #3 (though it is still definitely a big factor).

As for the activity on the forum, well, it is called the SRK owner's forum, and nobody except the A Team owns one so far.  Give it time.

[SparkE]

Sure.

[paravil]

Dan, the larger size of vehicles generally preferred in North America would definitely permit almost three SRKs or Solos to be parked in one parking space. But parking in parking bays facing the traffic is not the norm here in Europe. Most vehicles are parked parallel to the side of the road. Thus, even a motorbike would take up one whole parking space. That is why bikes are generally permitted to park on pavements (if they don´t obstruct pedestrians).

Width is of primary importance, not only for ease of parking, but also to save space in urban traffic in order to relieve congestion and make filtering through congestion possible.

The Solo (without rear view mirrors) is only 30ccm slimmer than a Smart ForTwo. But the Smart has two seats next to each other and four wheels. I just cannot see the advantage of limiting the number of passengers to one, maintaining the width of a small car and having only one, central powered rear wheel.

The advantage of having only one, central seat (or two tandem seats) would be to enable a much slimmer vehicle. This would be inherently unstable in a turn without the ability to tilt. A number of quads and scooters have proven the viability of the tilting mechanism. And they are not relevantly more expensive than the non-tilting variety.

[DanCooper]

As I see it, there is a need for more variety and specialization in vehicles. One size fits all generally means a large SUV or pickup truck, which wastes a whole lot of energy and causes a lot of unnecessary pollution and congestion.

In Europe motorcycles commonly drive between lanes. I consider that suicidal, and I only did it when both lanes were completely stopped. In the USA people are more concerned with punishing people than with facilitating traffic. If you drive between lanes, you will get a traffic ticket, if somebody doesn't open a door or move their car over first to cause you to stop or crash. One time, when traffic was completely stopped for quite a while, I knew that if I drove my motorcycle on the shoulder I would get stopped. So I got off and pushed it along the shoulder. The cops stopped me anyway.

On tilting vehicles, we must be aware that there are two totally different approaches. Passive tilt is well proven. It handles like a 2-wheeler, with all the advantages and disadvantages, except for very low speeds and parking. It would slip on ice like a 2-wheeler, only worse, because you can't put your feet down as easily. I suppose if you kept it really slow so the tilt would be locked out, it would be OK as long as the road is level. Active tilt adds a lot of complexity, and as far as I know not enough have been sold to know what problems might appear.

[paravil]

So, it could well be that European towns (with their traditional, unplanned layout) would necessitate a totally different urban vehicle to that required by the North American market. Most of the major Japanese and European car manufacturers have introduced narrow, tilting, four wheeled, tandem two seaters as concept prototypes. But have never manufactured them. It is strange that motorcycle manufacturers who quite often market tilting, three-wheeled scooters, have never made an enclosed model. This could be due to the limits emposed by the internatiionally accepted categories (i.e. L7 quadricycle). I suspect that Arcimoto are disinclined to depict an enclosed SRK, as it would then no longer conform to the category of open quad.

[Rickb]

Seems like Toyota is/was making an attempt to fill that urban commuter market niche with their narrow tilting i-Road concept.  Specifications seem perfect for an urban commuter:

[DanCooper]

The I-Road is interesting. In addition to active tilt it has rear-wheel steering, which could present some interesting stability issues. The test drive I read about suggested not to drive it in snow. I need to be able to drive in snow - I was in snow this morning coming to work.

I am also very suspicious of a vehicle that thinks it is smarter than I am. The I-Road buzzes the steering wheel when you exceed its maximum tilt, but what happens then? On a motorcycle, if things look bad I can lay it down and let the bike take the impact rather than being thrown over the handlebars. One time I came to an unexpected icy patch and the car in front of me stopped suddenly and I couldn't put my feet down and brake at the same time. So I laid it down and stopped without hitting anything or doing any damage. I don't want a vehicle to tell me I can't do that. In a car or an SRK there could be times when I throw it into a full skid rather than take a head-on impact.

[paravil]

The rear wheel steering necessitates a severe limit on speed. And it swings the rear of the vehicle into traffic when changing direction. Nothing seems the have been heard of the iRoad for quite somne time.

[Rickb]

Toyota had 40 units in the hands of 100 plus everyday drivers about a year ago.  After miles and miles of road testing reviews were positive and no report of any stability issues.  Toyota will have all safety issues worked out if they decide to move this urban commuter into mass production status.

I would drive the I-road as a seasonal motorcycle commuter for city Wide  errands only in my 4 season neck of the woods as a supplement to my small SUV.  Same goes for the SRK or SOLO when it comes to winter driving, I will park it and drive the AWD.

[DanCooper]

I would use the SRK as all-season transportation. Even without sides on, it will have a lot less wind chill than a motorcycle. With 2 wheel drive its snow handling should be good. The independent motors will not have the problem of a car with a differential where one wheel spins and the rest give no thrust. My wife got the AWD Subaru stuck that way Friday, after high-centering it on a snowdrift, and I had to dig out under it. At least if the SRK high-centers on a snowdrift, it will be a lot easier to push it or dig it out. (In Wyoming we are tough.)