Signature Series

[SparkE]

I managed to get 6.0m/kWh on my SparkEV fairly regularly (overall average) and I drove mostly in city, very rarely on freeways (although not uncommon for me to drive on 'expressways' at 45-50 mph). My driving *was* generally stop-and-go (lots of stop signs and stoplights), however. My wife averaged around 5.5m/k.

I find the estimate of 2.2 mi/kwh at 60 mph to be very overly pessimistic. When driving on the freeway (around 57-69 mph), I would get around 4.2-4.4 m/kWh (except the one time I did 70-75 on rolling hills to race to the airport - oops!). Although the resistance of moving through air ("the CD factor" - Coefficient of Drag) is a square of the speed, it isn't until 22-30 mph (in general) in an EV that CD gets close to the normal losses of driving (motor efficiency, tire resistance, ...). You won't get MUCH further at 20 mpg than 10 mph on a closed track at a steady speed.

HOPEFULLY, the FUV will get 6.0+ m/kWh around town, 5-ish around 40-45 mph, and 4-ish around 60.

[ricschug]

Dan, temperature will definitely have an effect on range. Between  60 and 80, not so much. But if your batteries start your morning drive at (say) 45 degrees, you will have a noticeably shorter range (not 50%, but a loss of over 10%). Also, over time your range will decrease because of battery fade.

Geeks (like me) worry about babying (to a certain extent) the Li-Ion batteries for longer life (the battery WILL lose capacity over time, no matter what you do - the idea is to minimize it). I was never anal about it (well, MY definition of anal at any rate - my wife disagrees ) but the following generally hurt Li-Ion life, no matter the exact composition of the battery:
- extreme heat (especially *charging* when the batteries are hot)
- charging to full (and then leaving battery full for 'a long while' before use)
- the combo of the two above : a full, battery sitting in the heat (say, a full battery parked all day in the sun in 95+ degree weather)

What I tended to do (in general, not always) :
- keep battery between 20% and 80% charge (try to never fully charge or discharge)
- when I needed close to a full range, charge 'at the last moment' (charge to ~85% the night before, then charge the last 10-15%in the AM)
- don't charge when it's hot (over 90) - delay charging until the cooler evening hours
- when I knew it was going too be hot, hot, hot, limit charge to 60-70% if I could
- when I had a vehicle with active (liquid) cooling (instead of useless air cooling), use it to keep battery temp under 90F
- always had vehicle with a battery *heater*, so plug car in about 20-30 minutes before leaving to heat battery when under 45 degrees (and charge a little less than normal the night before, to not 'overfill' the battery) - and to run seat heater and car's air heater/blower

I figured that if I were careful 90% of the time, I would delay the aging of the battery significantly - I never tried for 100% 'conformance' to my rules.

If you are going to use the FUV for commuting, try to get access to a 120V plug at work, so that you can 'top up' the battery to about 80% at work (when it isn't hot). Commercial electricity is darn cheap - a FULL CHARGE (say, 10 kWh) should cost less than a buck. If you can bring your own (cheap) portable 120V EVSE ("charging cable") and padlock it to the FUV so it doesn't "walk off", you can just charge at work. Write me a PM if you want to discuss EVSEs (brands, features, essential capabilities IMO, etc).

OR, if somebody is really interested in discussions about batteries, 'chargers', charging networks, etc. then start a new thread outside of this "Sig Series' thread and I'll contribute to that one. (Y'all may have guessed that I've been driving electric for a while.)

This brings up a curiosity question. When the FUV readout says 0% charge do they mean 0 or is it the bottom discharge limit they have set. Same applies to 100% is it their upper limit set point or actually 100%. I would hope it is their set limits.

[SparkE]

All other EVs 'reserve' a certain amount of the battery, not just protecting from 'absolute' empty or full, but also with a little buffer at 'bottom' and 'top' so that the V never get to battery manufacturers' suggested min or max. Also, all other (mainstream) EVs show 0% at be THEIR bottom discharge limit, and 100% for THEIR max allowed charge.

[PAX]

This brings up a curiosity question. When the FUV readout says 0% charge do they mean 0 or is it the bottom discharge limit they have set. Same applies to 100% is it their upper limit set point or actually 100%. I would hope it is their set limits.

100% and 0% are based on the available amount of battery capacity.  That being said in my observation it is just an approximate. With my wife driving on the freeway we got off at 38%. stopped at a light, then proceeded on a 35 mph road. Percentage went up to 42% and stay above 40 for a couple of miles. When we got home (about 8.5 miles) it read 38% again.

---

I made a spreadsheet a while back to estimate FUV performance. It is based on educated guesses on motor and battery efficiency and rolling resistance, published figures on weight and battery capacity, and a wild-ass guess on aerodynamic drag coefficient. It predicts 6.0 mi/kWh at 30 mph, 4.2 mi/kwh at 40 mph, and 2.2 mi/kwh at 60 mph.

I don't think rolling hills would have a large effect on energy use, unless they were so steep that you spent a lot of time in regenerative braking. I don't think having two motors would have any effect at all. The motor efficiency should be the same over a range of motor sizes.

I hope it comes equipped with a battery heater, powered during charging. If not, it would be easy enough to add one, just heat tape and a thermostat. An electric space heater, on a timer so it would run an hour or so before I plan to leave, should increase comfort on cold days. This assumes that there are doors.

- Dan

Dan,   I think AM has some data on this- I heard they did some real time test on steady state driving,   If i remember correctly I heard that  35mph was a magic speed. Unfortunately I don't have access to this info.   I will do a test run -60 steady down the freewy until I hit 60% and then head home at 60. Unfortunately there are slower speeds at different times that will throw this test off.
I think the 2.2 is very low but I will try to get you some data. Unfortunately my data will not be a true steady 60 speed.  I will try to document the slower speeds.
Battery heater- no. adding one would be tough due (as I understand but have not witnessed) the fact that the cells are enclosed in a setting gel type substance. Sorry, I don't have more on this. The individual cells are put into a case and a setting gel is put in around the cells, air is sucked out and gel sets, locking in cellls. 
For heater in cabin-  I personally think EVs should be using small diesel forced air heaters. The type long distance truckers use in sleeping cabins.  i have one on my boat and it is great and a smaller version would work for EVs.  Fossil fuels for heat and electricity for motion.

[ricschug]

100% and 0% are based on the available amount of battery capacity.  That being said in my observation it is just an approximate. With my wife driving on the freeway we got off at 38%. stopped at a light, then proceeded on a 35 mph road. Percentage went up to 42% and stay above 40 for a couple of miles. When we got home (about 8.5 miles) it read 38% again.

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Dan,   I think AM has some data on this- I heard they did some real time test on steady state driving,   If i remember correctly I heard that  35mph was a magic speed. Unfortunately I don't have access to this info.   I will do a test run -60 steady down the freewy until I hit 60% and then head home at 60. Unfortunately there are slower speeds at different times that will throw this test off.
I think the 2.2 is very low but I will try to get you some data. Unfortunately my data will not be a true steady 60 speed.  I will try to document the slower speeds.
Battery heater- no. adding one would be tough due (as I understand but have not witnessed) the fact that the cells are enclosed in a setting gel type substance. Sorry, I don't have more on this. The individual cells are put into a case and a setting gel is put in around the cells, air is sucked out and gel sets, locking in cellls. 
For heater in cabin-  I personally think EVs should be using small diesel forced air heaters. The type long distance truckers use in sleeping cabins.  i have one on my boat and it is great and a smaller version would work for EVs.  Fossil fuels for heat and electricity for motion.

So you went from 38% to 42% then back to 38%, sounds like you got a free ride home. Do the think the jump up was from regen braking?

[Rickb]

Perhaps Arcimoto could design and engineer an option similar to the EP Tender as an experience center rental for long road trips or purchase for those that need the daily use extended range option.  Interesting future consideration, but perhaps not practical for the majority of the urban commuter FUV Owners. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UnN4khtqa-U

[PAX]

So you went from 38% to 42% then back to 38%, sounds like you got a free ride home. Do the think the jump up was from regen braking?

No not regen.I am not totally sure how the % is calculated but part of it is based on the battery  voltage and when pulling hard from batteries it drops down.  Very noticable on my E-truck which has a voltmeter and instantly shows voltage drop when accelerating and going up when stopped. I suspect AM uses some other information to smooth out the percentage reading.   We had come up a long hill at close to 60 so were sucking a lot of juice.  My point was that the % gauge is an approximation.

[SparkE]

No not regen.I am not totally sure how the % is calculated but part of it is based on the battery  voltage and when pulling hard from batteries it drops down.  Very noticable on my E-truck which has a voltmeter and instantly shows voltage drop when accelerating and going up when stopped. I suspect AM uses some other information to smooth out the percentage reading.   We had come up a long hill at close to 60 so were sucking a lot of juice.  My point was that the % gauge is an approximation.

They just need to write better software. The V can drop a lot in a very short period of time, but they need to update the algorithm to consider a max battery-%-estimate drop allowed over T amount of time (modified by things such as the speed and the current {amp} draw over X amount of time) to "smooth things out". Other vehicles don't have a problem with this. On EVs, we call it a GOM (Guess-O-Meter) for a reason, but simple logic should fix the stated issue.

[Kepesk]

Those sorts of algorithms are tricky as they are also subject to the quirks of the particular vehicle. I'm sure theirs will be improved over time.

[CreativeGuy]

I am working late tonight so will be driving home after dark.  I'll let you know how the lights are.  The "old" headlights are now amber driving lights.  Not really headlights now but more of a vehicle width indicator.  They do look really cool

Here are three pictures I took the other night.  First I covered up the new headlights to show just the Amber lights that replaced the original headlights.  They throw out an ample amount of light.  More than I thought they would. (great for cutting through our coastal fog) The second pic is with the addition of low beam headlight and finally with the high beam added.  Cheers,