Extensive Autocycle Article

[DiscjockeyDale]

http://www.ncsl.org/research/transportat...ycles.aspx

Thanks Thom.

[DanCooper]

I find this appalling. Bureaucrats are trying to find a whole new way to justify their existence by proliferating a whole thicket of rules and regulations, some contradictory, some unnecessary, and some just stupid. For instance, a seat belt would decrease safety on a vehicle that does not have a roll structure. And helmets are totally pointless in a vehicle that does have a roll structure and seat belts.

What I would like to see is a new category of vehicle. It might be called "Exempt" or some such thing. It would have to be plainly marked. It would include any type of vehicle - car, motorcycle, or autocycle. It would have no safety requirements other than having lights, turn signals, and brakes. It would be required to pass only the most basic emissions regulations, equivalent to the same ppm per mile of key pollutants as the least restrictive category of passenger cars.

The idea is that if you want to break your own fool neck, it is your business. Or if you want to have even higher safety than a standard vehicle, as the FUV has, you can have that without expensive regulations on small manufacturers. It would give us back the freedom to import vehicles for our own use that are not sold here. I think this is such an eminently good idea that it will have no chance whatever of acceptance by the government.

[Rickb]

I don't find it appalling, but rather lacks a common sense universal definition since vehicles are driven across State lines.

I found my personal State Bureaucrat to be surprisingly responsive when I contacted him regarding His possible support for Idaho Autocycle Legislation.  I laid the case out based on the hoards of Elios expected to be on the nations highways beginning 2014-15.  

I was impressed by his interest and follow through when he said I’ll take your request to the transportation committee, get their input, draft, and sponsor a bill.  He did and it passed in 2016.  

He wasn’t justifying his existence he was being responsive and doing his job of representing constituents. The issue is 50 States drafting legislation and defining the motorcycle’s  autocycle subclass differently and most with little thought......three wheels, roll cage, and seatbelts may have been adequate.  What difference does it make how it steers or how the driver/sits in the damn thing?  Common sense appears to be out the window in this country.  Elio Motors had a legislative guy contacting States to insure the autocycle definition and legislation was restrictive and favored Elio Motors and the non-existent Elio.  Elio fans give them credit for that?  I see that as part of the problem.  As far as I know there are zero autocycles currently being manufactured, sold, and licensed in the USA.

Note:  I contacted my State Senator after EM secured the manufacturing plant and a contract to hire 1500 workers.  The manufacturing facility is likely the highest cost production milestone for a new startup vehicle manufacturer in getting a new vehicle to market.  I was convinced that the Elio’s production was imminent.  After the first production delay announcement and no promised engineering vehicles, I was embarrassed to ever have supported EM and their vaporware Elio and cancelled my reservation.

[DiscjockeyDale]

I find this appalling. Bureaucrats are trying to find a whole new way to justify their existence by proliferating a whole thicket of rules and regulations, some contradictory, some unnecessary, and some just stupid. For instance, a seat belt would decrease safety on a vehicle that does not have a roll structure. And helmets are totally pointless in a vehicle that does have a roll structure and seat belts.

What I would like to see is a new category of vehicle. It might be called "Exempt" or some such thing. It would have to be plainly marked. It would include any type of vehicle - car, motorcycle, or autocycle. It would have no safety requirements other than having lights, turn signals, and brakes. It would be required to pass only the most basic emissions regulations, equivalent to the same ppm per mile of key pollutants as the least restrictive category of passenger cars.

The idea is that if you want to break your own fool neck, it is your business. Or if you want to have even higher safety than a standard vehicle, as the FUV has, you can have that without expensive regulations on small manufacturers. It would give us back the freedom to import vehicles for our own use that are not sold here. I think this is such an eminently good idea that it will have no chance whatever of acceptance by the government.

No matter what that article says, the the only things the states really have any say in (by federal law) are MC licenses/endorsements and helmets.

Whether they like it or not. If the Solo or any other vehicle passes US federal compliance certification, the states are required to find a way to register it.

[jimball]

The one important thing I get out of this is that the FUV is not an autocycle, and never will be. It's definitely a motorcycle. Other than three wheels, seat belts and a roll cage, it has nothing in common with most definitions of an autocycle, and everything in common with definitions of a motorcycle. The biggest thing to argue about is whether or not one need wear a helmet. Personally, I'll forego the helmets when we ride around town in Kansas and wear them when we travel to Joplin. Our helmets have wireless intercoms, which might come in handy at highway speeds.

[Rickb]

Autocycles are a subclass of motorcycles. The reason for the autocycle subclassification was to eliminate the individual States MC driver’s license endorsement and helmet requirements. Frankly, wearing a helmet in the FUV with enclosure panels would be less safe from a visibility standpoint. IMO. The seat belts and roll over protection should lessen the chances of or eliminate being thrown out or off the FUV.

[DiscjockeyDale]

Autocycles are a subclass of motorcycles.  The reason for the autocycle subclassification was to eliminate the individual States MC driver’s license endorsement and helmet requirements.  Frankly, wearing a helmet in the FUV with enclosure panels would be less safe from a visibility standpoint. IMO. The seat belts and roll over protection should lessen the chances of or eliminate being thrown out or off the FUV.

It's not visibility and hearing that are the most serious issues here.
Dale Earnhardt Senior died from being in an impact while restrained and wearing a helmet.
It was the weight of the helmet that broke his neck.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Dale_Earnhardt

[Rickb]

The only change that prevented the FUV’s autocycle subclass designation was when they went from wheel to handlebar steering.  Perhaps this steering wheel conversion is the simple autocycle solution for Arcimoto engineers and an option for those that prefer a steering wheel........eliminating the mirrors.

[jimball]

The only change that prevented the FUV’s autocycle subclass designation was when they went from wheel to handlebar steering.  Perhaps this steering wheel conversion is the simple autocycle solution for Arcimoto engineers and an option for those that prefer a steering wheel........eliminating the mirrors.

There were major changes to the steering geometry when Arcimoto switched to handlebars.  They did so to achieve significant weight savings.  Doubt offering a steering wheel will ever be an option.  Simply replacing the handlebars with something like that  gizmo would reduce the turning leverage available from handlebars, increasing steering effort.  Since trikes do not lean, it requires more than just a little pressure on a handlebar to make a turn.

[PAX]

There were major changes to the steering geometry when Arcimoto switched to handlebars.  They did so to achieve significant weight savings.  Doubt offering a steering wheel will ever be an option.  Simply replacing the handlebars with something like that  gizmo would reduce the turning leverage available from handlebars, increasing steering effort.  Since trikes do not lean, it requires more than just a little pressure on a handlebar to make a turn.

The FUV has power steering - not that much effort